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    • By Design has a Porsche 991 Turbo Tial/Xona billet impeller upgrade

      Porsche 991 Turbo tuning is moving forward at a brisk pace. Flash tuning is obviously evolving on the platform and it looks like some turbo upgrades for the OEM housings may be available from By Design. The new billet wheels are designed by Tial Sport / Xona Rotor.


      Cars overseas have claimed to have their turbos upgraded and they likely have upgraded OEM housings with new wheels similar to this setup. The tuners that do offer turbo upgrades tend to offer them as part of a package.

      A 991 Turbo owner could in theory purchase these impellers and do their own tuning and own fuel system upgrades instead of having to pay a set price for an entire package. That sounds great, but where is the data?

      Cobb is said to be helping with the tuning of these but without any actual concrete info including pricing who is going to pony up for this upgrade? A dyno plot at the minimum would do wonders.

      Either way, expect more turbocharger upgrade options on the horizon for the 991 Turbo / S platform.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: By Design claims to have a Porsche 991 Turbo Tial/Xona billet impeller upgrade but with no data to back it up started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 18 Comments
      1. sdg1871's Avatar
        sdg1871 -
        ByDesign has not released a dyno run yet. On another forum, they stated that in an initial state of tune, the car with the upgrade will produce about 630 wheel horsepower but with more testing they will increase that. As you probably know, Cobb posted in another forum that the fueling limit of the 991 TT and TTS is 657 wheel horsepower.

        ByDesign's mainstream turbo upgrade as I understand it is a stock housing with a 65mm wheel. They have stared that a 68mm wheel solution will also be available.

        I don't think any owners will be doing fueling upgrades as none are available for either the 991 TT/TTS or the 997.2 TT/TTS. I am sure they will be offering owners a meth solution to increase power even in the face of the fueling limit as Champion and GIAC have done on Longboarder's 997.2 which has bumped against the fueling limit.

        Champion and GIAC are hard at work on their turbo upgrade. The details of that have not been released. Who knows what they will offer. What I do know is that my 991 TTS, RedGutz, will get it shortly after it is out. Hoping for at least 650 wheel hp but that is just my hope -- no one has promised me that. For now I have increased power on my car to Mark Blackwell's level as I now have the most current GIAC Stage 2+ file (which is a lot more powerful than the initial version of that tune that was in my car) and I have taken out the IPD plenum and replaced it with the stock plenum. These new mods yield about 30 more wheel hp and 30 more lbs ft of wheel torque than my car with the IPD plenum and the initial version of the GIAC Stage 2 +.

        Emre from ESMotor in Turkey has now gotten a 9.41 second quarter mile in a turbo upgrade 991 TTS. Exciting stuff.

        There will be a ByDesign Stage 4 turbo upgrade 991 TTS at this weekend's Redline event. I expect it will break the US 991 TT/TTS record.

        It would be nice to see a dyno run from ByDesign. My guess is that they are still developing and perfecting their turbo upgrade and that they will not be releasing dyno data until they are completely satisfied with it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sdg1871 Click here to enlarge
        Cobb posted in another forum that the fueling limit of the 991 TT and TTS is 657 wheel horsepower.
        http://www.porscheboost.com/content....em-is-650-awhp
      1. 991T's Avatar
        991T -
        LOL Are you mad bro.... Yes the By Design HTZ wheel upgrade is available and on at least 7 vehicles. Data exists and is posted on a competing forum that has actual member traffic. Hope you are as eager to post a positive tag line as the track results come in and the performance gains become widely held. Sadly, this hack piece is solely in the interest of drawing attention. What a shame
      1. sdg1871's Avatar
        sdg1871 -
        Ah You are right.
      1. sdg1871's Avatar
        sdg1871 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 991T Click here to enlarge
        LOL Are you mad bro.... Yes the By Design HTZ wheel upgrade is available and on at least 7 vehicles. Data exists and is posted on a competing forum that has actual member traffic. Hope you are as eager to post a positive tag line as the track results come in and the performance gains become widely held. Sadly, this hack piece is solely in the interest of drawing attention. What a shame
        I don't think your attack on Sticky is either warranted or supported by the activity in the other forum.

        In the other form to which you refer bydesign has written two threads in the last two days announcing the availability if it's stage 4 65 mm VTG turbo upgrade. And in neither did they post dyno data even in response to questions and requests for it. In the most recent thread ByDesign wrote that current power is about 630 wheel horsepower but they're still testing it and it should be going up.

        This is is a very new upgrade and by their own writings, ByDesign is still perfecting it to get more power. It is not uncommon for a tuner to release an early version of an upgrade with a more conservative tune and then issue a Revised tune file with more power once the tuner has more experience with an confidence in the upgrade. GIAC did that with its Stage 2+ tune with the Champion intercoolers. I got one of the first ones so I got the initial more conservative version of the tune. About a month or two later I received a more powerful revised tune file.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sdg1871 Click here to enlarge
        And in neither did they post dyno data even in response to questions and requests for it. In the most recent thread ByDesign wrote that current power is about 630 wheel horsepower but they're still testing it and it should be going up.
        That data only exists in his head.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sdg1871 Click here to enlarge
        This is is a very new upgrade and by their own writings, ByDesign is still perfecting it to get more power. It is not uncommon for a tuner to release an early version of an upgrade with a more conservative tune and then issue a Revised tune file with more power once the tuner has more experience with an confidence in the upgrade. GIAC did that with its Stage 2+ tune with the Champion intercoolers. I got one of the first ones so I got the initial more conservative version of the tune. About a month or two later I received a more powerful revised tune file.
        Too level headed of a response to a troll.
      1. sdg1871's Avatar
        sdg1871 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That data only exists in his head.



        Too level headed of a response to a troll.
        I am sure ByDesign has Dyno data. They are working with Tial which is top notch and are taking the turbo upgrade very seriously. I am sure Dyno data will come when they have settled on a tune which produces the most power while not blowing up the car.

        As far as my response to posts that I think are bunk I always keep it level headed and rational. Works in my 20 year career as a commercial and business litigator and trial lawyer so cannot see changing my style. Also is more effective at discrediting bunk than a more furocious response. But everyone has their own style that works for them.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sdg1871 Click here to enlarge
        I am sure ByDesign has Dyno data. They are working with Tial which is top notch and are taking the turbo upgrade very seriously. I am sure Dyno data will come when they have settled on a tune which produces the most power while not blowing up the car.
        Of course. It just hasn't been posted yet.

        It's better to post the data with a turbo upgrade announcement rather than use pictures of the turbos to try to get sales.

        People want to see the results.
      1. sdg1871's Avatar
        sdg1871 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Of course. It just hasn't been posted yet.

        It's better to post the data with a turbo upgrade announcement rather than use pictures of the turbos to try to get sales.

        People want to see the results.
        I hear you on that. Their main competitor Champion/GIAC is taking more time in getting their turbo upgrade out. I am more familiar with Champion/GIAC as I am an early adopter of their mods in my 991 TTS.

        I have no doubt that they are hard at work on perfecting their upgrade even if by doing so they are losing some sales to those who want it right now. But I believe and have no doubt whatsoever that it will be well worth waiting for. When it comes out, I am hoping that my car will get it right away. Looking forward to seeing what it will do to the car's performance.
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Of course. It just hasn't been posted yet.

        It's better to post the data with a turbo upgrade announcement rather than use pictures of the turbos to try to get sales.

        People want to see the results.
        Yet one of your main N54 turbo vendors who you did a giveaway deal with is now selling not one, not two, but three new turbo upgrades with nary a single result. Pot me kettle, kettle meet pot.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        Yet one of your main N54 turbo vendors who you did a giveaway deal with is now selling not one, not two, but three new turbo upgrades with nary a single result. Pot me kettle, kettle meet pot.
        Not everything is about you or the N54. If someone wants to pay to advertise products without results that is on them. My point here stands as much as it does there regarding it being best to post data to accompany it. Plus the person in question has posted results on the platform with turbo upgrades which is not the same thing here.

        Please keep it on topic and stop creating vendor drama at every possible instance.
      1. ecpchris's Avatar
        ecpchris -
        There are dyno plots out there for the ByDesign turbos which I've personally seen.
        I think the ByDesign strategy is to release that info after they get real world on track results, which in my opinion speaks louder than dyno #s . After the Red List I am certain you will see those dyno #s along with actual #s from the drag strip and vbox.
        Everyone has their own way of doing things and I don't believe Sam@ByDesign is trying to peddle snake oil because he hasn't' released those yet. I know he has tried to get some track results prior to this but for one reason or another the cars couldn't make it. Plus, they were perfecting the tune to complement. Handful of cars running this "stage 4" package now and I believe 2 or 3 will be at Red List. Should be interesting
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecpchris Click here to enlarge
        There are dyno plots out there for the ByDesign turbos which I've personally seen.
        Where? Post them. By Design didn't post them for some reason.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecpchris Click here to enlarge
        Everyone has their own way of doing things and I don't believe Sam@ByDesign is trying to peddle snake oil because he hasn't' released those yet. I know he has tried to get some track results prior to this but for one reason or another the cars couldn't make it. Plus, they were perfecting the tune to complement. Handful of cars running this "stage 4" package now and I believe 2 or 3 will be at Red List. Should be interesting
        I don't think there is anything shady going on but if they are waiting to release data until they have things further refined or figured out why even announce the turbo upgrade for sale then at this point?
      1. COBB Tuning's Avatar
        COBB Tuning -
        Really Sticky? We have lots of data from these turbos. Do you want me to post them?

        We we are happy to show what we have but threads that start with unfounded claims are silly.

        Thanks,

        Mitch
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by COBB Tuning Click here to enlarge
        Really Sticky? We have lots of data from these turbos. Do you want me to post them?

        We we are happy to show what we have but threads that start with unfounded claims are silly.

        Thanks,

        Mitch
        I don't mean anything negative I just haven't seen any data. I just am trying to get information for a consumer who might want to purchase these as well as for those who want to see updated turbo info.

        You guys see the stuff from the Middle East with basically no info on the turbos or any dynos or anything.

        I'm not doubting anything here just looking for supplemental information. Obviously I'm sure you guys are doing a great job with the tuning as the Cobb AP is powering the fastest 991 Turbos all over the globe now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Title edited for accuracy and I hope to have data to share you with guys on these turbos soon.
      1. ecpchris's Avatar
        ecpchris -
        I'm very certain you will get dyno sheets and real world performance numbers after Saturday's event. The COBB/ByDesign team has been working pretty hard and doubt they want to tip their hand until then.
        Should be a lot of good Porsche data after Saturday's event
      1. Track89's Avatar
        Track89 -
        AWW SCHUCKS FINALLY THE By Design Porsche 991 Turbo Tial/Xona billet impeller upgrade!! WooHOO