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    • 2018 BMW F82 M4 CS goes Head 2 Head with the 991.2 Porsche 911 GTS - MotorTrend completely ruins a Nurburgring comparison

      MotorTrend got their hands on these two German hot rods featuring 3.0 liter twin turbo powerplants. The engine design is quite different however with the 911 GTS 9A2B6 featuring an oversquare flat-6 and the M4 S55 featuring an undersquare inline-6 which BoostAddict previously covered in an engine design comparison article.


      That said on paper these cars match up well. The M4 obviously offers greater value but it is heavier and seats four adults. The 911 does not seat four adults but is roughly 200 pounds lighter and of course more expensive. Power is essentially a wash on paper but we really need to see them both on the dyno to know the truth regarding torque curves, spool, and output. Unlike BMW who just changes software for the output gain, Porsche gives you larger turbos with the GTS.

      This GTS is rear wheel drive just like the M4 and both have dual clutch transmissions so this is as apples to apples as we are going to get. Ok, let's get to the actual performance comparison!

      They get the cars out on the Nurburgring and how can you not love that? Well, they ruin the whole thing by not providing laptimes. WTF is the point here guys? You attend a track day, talk about factory laptimes, and provide no actual performance measures. MotorTrend should never be allowed to take cars on the 'Ring again.

      What happens after the big Nurburgring buildup that ends in a whimper? They go on some damp and foggy mountain road and continue to yammer on about their feelings. Where is the Head 2 Head performance comparison gentlemen? You might as well have grandmothers compare these cars.

      What a waste of time MotorTrend. Don't call it a Head 2 Head comparison when really it is just story time with Jonny Lieberman and some guy who has an English accent which obviously means he has to know cars. You guys are a joke.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: 2018 BMW F82 M4 CS goes Head 2 Head with the 991.2 Porsche 911 GTS - MotorTrend completely ruins a Nurburgring comparison started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 21 Comments
      1. quattr0's Avatar
        quattr0 -
        I know you're not a big fan of the bearded man...they did provide the official lap times so figured no point of reproducing...I thought it's a decent comparison, even tho it's not fair, but it does bring the point how good BMW trying to fix with CS model.

        I enjoy the comment going over uneven surface and how well either car handles. Also how well the stock GTS breaking is. Not a worse review IMHO.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by quattr0 Click here to enlarge
        they did provide the official lap times so figured no point of reproducing
        Independent testing is HUGE or we would all just go by manufacturer claims.

        Ferrari would be saying their cars do 4 minute laps.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They get the cars out on the Nurburgring and how can you not love that? Well, they ruin the whole thing by not providing laptimes. WTF is the point here guys? You attend a track day, talk about factory laptimes, and provide no actual performance measures. MotorTrend should never be allowed to take cars on the 'Ring again.
        Impossible to run lap times, track days are not run on full circuit.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Independent testing is HUGE or we would all just go by manufacturer claims.

        Ferrari would be saying their cars do 4 minute laps.
        SportAuto is the only publication running full Supertests that include the Ring. They will surely have times you are looking for eventually.

        You are going to have to get use to the new Head to Head format with Jethro. Apparently half the shows will be shot in Europe, Motor Trend does not have the same amount of connections they have in the US. Also their budget is limited, so flying Randy over and renting tracks out to do lap times each test isn't feasible.

        The show is much better now the Jethro. I put him right up their with Harris, similar driving experience/talent...maybe more.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
        Impossible to run lap times, track days are not run on full circuit.
        You don't need the full circuit to compare at the same time and same place.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
        The show is much better now the Jethro. I put him right up their with Harris, similar driving experience/talent...maybe more.
        I put him up there too as far my distaste.
      1. AWSAWS's Avatar
        AWSAWS -
        but there could only ever be one winner in this comparison...
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't need the full circuit to compare at the same time and same place.
        Have you ever tried to set a hot lap during touristenfahrten? It’s not nearly as easy as you think it is. And then compare vs another car? Nope.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Jethro is a beast. His words are widely respected among a huge reach of extremely important people in the industry, like the entire Top Gear crew, Mclaren, every magazine. Jethro is DriveTribe...

        No need to re-run the lap times, they've already ran them there.

        The video was a little boring though - they've could've made it more interesting with figures. Like actually doing an autobahn speed test within a distance, or drag race, 1/2 mile, mile at Bruntingthorpe Aerodrome or high speed oval rather than just talk and drive fast
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BLKROKT Click here to enlarge
        Have you ever tried to set a hot lap during touristenfahrten? It’s not nearly as easy as you think it is. And then compare vs another car? Nope.
        I'm not even saying they needed to do a Nurburgring lap but where is any performance metric? Skidpad? Slalom?

        What about acceleration?

        They are doing no testing but just talking. It's like an even lamer Chris Harris video if that was possible.

        When Randy Pobst is there at least they test on the track and dragstrip.

        This is worthless.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        No need to re-run the lap times, they've already ran them there.
        Nonsense. Independent 'Ring times are far more valuable than manufacturer marketing times.
      1. quattr0's Avatar
        quattr0 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Jethro is a beast. His words are widely respected among a huge reach of extremely important people in the industry, like the entire Top Gear crew, Mclaren, every magazine. Jethro is DriveTribe...
        Agreed. I also love how he said 911 R owners are idi* for spending 1/2M for it from the technical standpoint.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by quattr0 Click here to enlarge
        Agreed. I also love how he said 911 R owners are idi* for spending 1/2M for it from the technical standpoint.
        They're not though. The 911 R is offered to select clientele like our friend 918 Spyder here.

        The people with the money for these things aren't the idiots...
      1. quattr0's Avatar
        quattr0 -
        Agreed. I did say Technical standpoint, not collectability standpoint.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by quattr0 Click here to enlarge
        Agreed. I did say Technical standpoint, not collectability standpoint.
        Definitely not $500k worth of car there but we all know the 911 R isn't about that.
      1. quattr0's Avatar
        quattr0 -
        The badge aside, I guess folks weren't anticipating Porsche will release a wingless and manual GT3...thus his comment.

        Price has gone down seen...there are 1/2 a dozen for sale for lesser 400k. That's still crazy but not too exclusive anymore IMHO.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by quattr0 Click here to enlarge
        Price has gone down seen...there are 1/2 a dozen for sale for lesser 400k. That's still crazy but not too exclusive anymore IMHO.
        Yeah I figured the new GT3 would have that effect.

        It was ridiculous how that bubble inflated to begin with.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't need the full circuit to compare at the same time and same place.
        Too many variables like traffic.

        They would be be better off keeping the show in the US and using Randy for lap times. Doing half the shows in Europe now, they will lack performance data you desire.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yeah I figured the new GT3 would have that effect.

        It was ridiculous how that bubble inflated to begin with.
        The least expensive one listed on autotrader is still $200k+ over msrp. Some are still listed almost $300k over.

        Those reports of people listing them for 1mill+ were BS. They never sold for that much.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
        They would be be better off keeping the show in the US and using Randy for lap times. Doing half the shows in Europe now, they will lack performance data you desire.
        Exactly this.

        Now it's just a show where they talk or try to show scenery.

        With Pobst at least they had some real credibility.