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    • 1700+ wheel horsepower Nth Moto built twin turbo Gen V Dodge Viper ACR vs. the world

      When it comes to Viper builds Nth Moto is arguably the best in the business. From naturally aspirated builds to twin turbo they set the standard. They do not come cheap however as their builds are based around Motec engine management computers.


      If you want the best, this is it.

      This is obviously a twin turbo Gen V Viper ACR which means it is generating quite a big of downforce thanks to the aero work. It certainly helps keep the car planted when trying to put down 1700+ horsepower at the wheels.

      Anyway, it runs some beasts on the streets of Texas. Up first is an 1100+ whp Gen V Viper which isn't much competition.

      Next up is another twin turbo Viper said to trap over 180 miles per hour. It is not a manual though but has an auto swap. They go at it from 50-190 and the automatic Viper TA pulls.

      A C6 ZR1 said to be making 1200 whp wants to play. Well, it gets played. Beat down.

      An 1100 Nissan GTR and a stock internal 1100 whp twin turbo Viper run. The lighter Viper pulls. The GTR gets the hit next and it pulls.

      The GTR runs the C6 ZR1 next. Victory for the ZR1 but a good run.

      Ok, back to the 1700 whp Viper ACR. The GTR goes head to head with it and... wow. The Viper pulling really puts 1700 whp in perspective.

      A faster 1400+ whp GTR steps up to the plate. It isn't fast enough.

      The stock internal Gen V Viper with 1100 whp is now the camera car and it runs a MKIV Supra making over 1000+ whp with nitrous on top. The Supra pulls.

      The Viper then tries the 1400 awhp red GTR and gets pulled.

      Tons of good runs and the video gives you an idea of the kind of power you need to play with the big boys these days and just how damn fast these cars are.

      Awesome stuff.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: 1700 HP viper VS everything started by ///MPOSTER View original post
      Comments 9 Comments
      1. jcolley's Avatar
        jcolley -
        Have you seen Calvo's work? I sat next to Collin Murphy (Ninjaneering), the Motec integrator/programmer/tuner for Calvo for a week last year at the Motec dealer training in CA. Solid dude and knows his $#@!.

      1. gzim335's Avatar
        gzim335 -
        I was there,the white gtr is from team insanity in nyc,viper guy refused to rerun for a clean run...told me I’m out of gas lol
      1. LncGmz's Avatar
        LncGmz -
        Calvo has my vote and Nth Moto has recently got into a pickle. Some of their customers vehicles are running into issues. I think it was more of a money thing. My brother was telling me about it a couple weeks ago.
      1. LncGmz's Avatar
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        whoa that lambo owner got taken for a ride. Thats nuts how they had him locked into a contract and he was forced to keep spending money into that pit of a car.
      1. ///MPOSTER's Avatar
        ///MPOSTER -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        whoa that lambo owner got taken for a ride. Thats nuts how they had him locked into a contract and he was forced to keep spending money into that pit of a car.

        You know it happened to owner #1 the exact same way. He probably spent even more than owner #2 . I just can’t believe they billed him for track support when they really didn’t do much of anything. Who even knows if they rebuilt or fixed anything to make it right those times they charged him. Sounds like a nightmare.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jcolley Click here to enlarge
        Have you seen Calvo's work? I sat next to Collin Murphy (Ninjaneering), the Motec integrator/programmer/tuner for Calvo for a week last year at the Motec dealer training in CA. Solid dude and knows his $#@!.
        Absolutely: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....twin-turbo-kit

        Regarding Collin Murphy he is very talented but he claimed you could not turbo the Gen V Viper on the stock ECU: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....hp-on-pump-gas

        So while the standalone is the best way to do it and the Motec is the way to go you CAN run forced induction successfully on the factory ECU.

        That's where I disagreed with him and he became very confrontational and aggressive. Because he was wrong...
      1. jcolley's Avatar
        jcolley -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Absolutely: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....twin-turbo-kit

        Regarding Collin Murphy he is very talented but he claimed you could not turbo the Gen V Viper on the stock internals: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....hp-on-pump-gas

        So while the standalone is the best way to do it and the Motec is the way to go you CAN run forced induction successfully on the factory ECU.

        That's where I disagreed with him and he became very confrontational and aggressive. Because he was wrong...
        Interesting. I'm not much for pissing contests, but interesting.

        I will say, his last sentence speaks volumes though: "what he wants from an ECU". The guy writes the code and compiles it as needed to carry out his desires, hence the OEM CAN integration he wrote. From spending 8 months disassembling and decompiling mss60 and mss65, there are things it is *absolutely* incapable of, unless I write and compile my own PPC code and shove them into unused areas and modify the assembly to reference them. Take NOS for example. Having a trigger to pull full load timing for during a NOS shot is simply not possible without repurposing an existing input and being *very* clever with modified assembly.

        AS for HP Tuners, I've never been much of a fan of it either. I don't have any market interest in the US cars for the most part, so only observed it's use, but it certainly allows for less development on your own. At least with most common euro-targeted systems, you can get the binary dump, potentially a funktionsrahmen, and maybe even a DAMOS file and go to town. In WinOLS you create your own map definitions and modify parameters to hearts content. IMO, HP Tuners (caveat again, never personally touched it), appears to be "easy mode" tuning where you only get to modify maps that that the company has decided is "worth" creating and implementing. Switching to a standalone allows immediate control of literally everything and with Motec M1, Bosch MS6/7, or even PiInnovo's OpenECU, you can create your own code, (with OpenECU even in MatLab/Simuling as the OEMs do) and make implement anything.

        As a budding developer on M1, I like having the flexibility to use speed density, MAP, or whatever I choose. I can write my own code to implement MAF (if desired...I don't have any) or a torque model for load control and DCT/SMG/DSC/ABS interaction or pretty much anything else. I think that's the thing a lot of people miss out on is the ability to program the M1s to do literally anything, not even restricted to engine control. One of the tutorial examples even has you learn to blink LEDs as an intro to M1 build. The limits are bounded only by the desire to maintain an ROI and not abandon any semblance of profitability (I'm honestly struggling on this part) on the time invested in it.

        Anyway, digressing, I would say that the recent HP and torque numbers demonstrated would clearly show better than double that 1000HP mark and a good factor of .5 greater than the OEM ECU ability. There are just things that a purpose built ECU can do that an OEM will never be able to. With all of the EPA mandated stuff the OEM ECUs are required to meet, unless HP tuners or the tuning method of choice has judged the ROI worthwhile to offer a config variable for it, you can't disable it and have no way around it. Examples would include:

        - torque reserves for cat heating (on a +1k HP race car...really?)
        - OBD compliance (if you're targeting over 1500HP...again...really?)
        - boost by gear for traction control,
        - full PID control of wastegates

        Those are just a few.

        So, Collin comes off as a bit gruff at times, but hands down, IMO he's right if your goal is maximum capability of the engine. There are strategies you're asking an OEM ECU carry out (or piggyback unit) to do that it *wasn't* designed to do/monitor and there's no way around that without someone implementing some very custom code.

        All my worthless observations, but as someone who spend half their sleep time literally thinking about disassembly and OEM code, I completely understand his obstinance on the OEM ECU.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jcolley Click here to enlarge
        I will say, his last sentence speaks volumes though: "what he wants from an ECU". The guy writes the code and compiles it as needed to carry out his desires, hence the OEM CAN integration he wrote. From spending 8 months disassembling and decompiling mss60 and mss65, there are things it is *absolutely* incapable of, unless I write and compile my own PPC code and shove them into unused areas and modify the assembly to reference them. Take NOS for example. Having a trigger to pull full load timing for during a NOS shot is simply not possible without repurposing an existing input and being *very* clever with modified assembly.
        I do not disagree.

        It was more of a question of can be it be done successfully. I think we've seen over the years plenty of forced induction setups on naturally aspirated cars running well.

        I'd prefer the Motec route too but a difference of $20k is no joke.